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Author Topic: Excessive floor licking/bouts of vomiting...? Help?  (Read 7876 times)
miree
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« on: October 03, 2008, 09:16:02 AM »

Hey all, pardon my absence, been quite busy round these parts.



I need some advice from any and all (yes I did say all lol the more the merrier) that are willing to contribute.
Be warned this is kind of long...


So this all started yesterday after we woke up, 8am, took her out to pee, no poops, back inside, set her food out, she played w/a toy for a minute or two, tried to rip some of the little nubs out of the carpet runner, had a few mouthfuls of food. Then comes the whining, pacing,... as well as a... you know how when you cry pretty hard and inhaling is kind of like hiccuping?? She was doing THAT. Off and on. Hard and soft (the whole morning). And then she got RIGHT UNDER ME, and throws it all back up. None of it chewed, whole kibble, whole piece of her cookie (for peeing quickly outside) and a bunch of frothy whitish/yellowish... stuff... ? , that's around 8:20 or 8:30.
She sniffs it, walks off and continues licking the whole kitchen floor. The whole dang floor!! She wouldn't even take her tongue off the ground when I told her to LOOK, she'd look while licking the floor.  Confused Then the wall, the door, and then she indicated that she had to potty so we leashed up to go into the yard and as soon as we stepped out the door she barfed right in the doorway (all thickish frothy stuff, around 9 or so), then we walked on and she commenced with the floor licking. Licked all the concrete, licked all the dirt off the concrete, then into the rest of the yard and sat there licking at the dirt. Just licking dirt. Then back inside, she threw up the dirt and some of the dead grass she had just licked up from outside (so this time it was brownish w/pieces of dead grass mixed in, on the kitchen floor, about 10:20). Had some water and back outside she licked MORE dirt and dead grass and threw THAT up on the concrete. (darker this time since she went straight for the dirt, and this around 10:55.) She went and dug up one of the few remaining grass chunks by the door and ate some of the grass, and then most of the dirt from the bottom that she yanked up from the ground.

Then she runs off playing and darting around, grabbed her tennis ball and ran off as if all is well and lovely?!?!

So at this point I'm panicking and reading up online just wtf is wrong with Mia. Read about Pepto, grass, blockage, chicken&rice, beef&rice, fasting, water, you name it. So I called a vet here and the lady told me (prefaced by a legal disclaimer) that it's "severe vomiting" and if it persists or does not improve w/in four hours to come on down, that they have a 2 oclock. (I called at the last vomiting episode)
She also said that it's not like an emergency and that I definitely did not need to rush Mia to the ER or anything because she's up to date on vac's, gum colors good (press and color returns quickly), not dehydrated (did the back skin thing), drinking water, was not lethargic, was not shaking drooling or otherwise indicating she was poisoned, and she did not have the runs. Fine.
Then around 11:00am or so after I hung up with the vet lady, Mia had a solid, regular looking poop. Even indicated that she had to go out. So we did, and I let her frantically drag me around to find the perfect spot (for both of us because I wanted to see it!) so she could go...

So we did some fasting. (I had taken the food away after the first vomit.) She slept. Then up with the licking around 2:00pm and she was generally happy. Wandered around. Played with her toys. Drank water. 
So I offered her some food at 5:00pm (felt horrible, poor girl hadn't eaten since day before dinner) she ate about half to three quarters of her 1 cup (minus that lil bit that she had eaten earlier) that I put down. Drank some water. And was generally merry. My mother came into the house and Mia greeted her like she usually does (like a total nut, jumping like a kangaroo, whining, barking, weaving between her feet, etc.) as if nothing had ever gone wrong, when I was in tears wondering if my puppy is at deaths door. Wtf.  Confused

So she kept her food down, I offered a bit more at 8:00pm which she declined. Still kept the food down. Drank water as usual. I had to go off and do a few things at 9:00pm and she merrily laid down on the carpet and entertained herself while I was gone.

So I come home with my sister at 11:00pm from the airport and Mia greets her like a nut as well. Like I was TOTALLY dead to her. YAAAY SIS IS BACK GET AWAY MOM! Sister ended up sitting on the floor w/Mia, still with her shoulder bag on, while Mia licked and bounced and snorted happily and brought each toy she could find over to my sisters lap to share.  Confused Confused Confused

So she only ate once (and a half if you count what she threwup in the morning), threw up four times, and pooped once, and ate not quite a whole cup of food for the day.


So here I am now, waken up by a whining Mia at 3:15am.
Ordinarily she sits inside her crate while I reach in and put her leash on, and she will "follow me" out the bedroom, through the kitchen and into the yard to go do her business.
Well she started with the crying-type-hiccup-type-noise so I didn't even put the leash on and had her get out told her GO GO GO MIA OUTSIDE!! (with a helpful pat on the rump to help her get going lol) And she ran out the bedroom, through the kitchen, all the while doing the crying hiccup noise thing, and sat (very quickly I might add) at the back door for leashing. We went outside. She's licking the concrete. Doing the hiccup thing. Licking the dirt. Went pee (3:20am) and runs back inside to lick the whole kitchen floor...  Confused
I had bought some Pepto last night on the way to the airport just in case. So... she had some water. And I offered her a teaspoon of the pepto. (bout 3:30, 3:40am) She made THE most hilarious face at it, yet she continued to lick the whole spoon dry. Continued licking up the floor, everywhere...  pacing, whining, and then she drank off the whole bowl of water (way to go me, forgot to pick it up!), but since she stood there stomping her feet I figured she needed it so I refilled it, and then again. So she drank two and a half small bowls of water.
She continued licking everywhere, floor, door, wall, my leg, my sweatpants... hacking here and there.
And then she ran into the corner and threw up the most glorious vomit I have ever heard. 4:30am. Like something from out of a movie even, HUUURRRL...all that water, and the teaspoon of Pepto, all over her CoolBed and all over the cabinet, mixed in with a bit of dirt, and a tiny bit of froth.
She continued wandering, licking the floor.
Had some water at 4:40. Then she had to go potty so we went outside and she's frantically darting around again... peed again... and then darts off (yes I am on the other side of the leash trying not to get yanked around) and she poops out a regular looking, firm piece of poop (although a small portion, which I guess is expected since she didn't eat much). (I went back outside w/a flashlight to make sure)

Then my mother woke up for work and Mia greeted her like a nut..with the kangaroo jumping, weaving through the feet, etc.
And the lies down on the floor like nothing happened... no more pacing, no more of the hiccup breathing, no more whining, nothing.

So I'm a bit perplexed here, and I wonder if anyone can give me any advice or ... something...
She kept her food down yesterday after the bout of vomiting.
And now that she's pooped she's fine and sleeping again?!?!

I don't know what to do or think or expect or what to... anything?! Confused Confused

I do have pictures of each of her vomits from yesterday if anyone wants to see them lol as well as a video of her doing that hiccupy-type-crying-inhalation-heave-thing?!
I didn't take a picture of the vomit that she laid out a few hrs ago, too watery and the cover of the CoolBed prettymuch absorbed it all since it was mostly water and the pepto and some random dirt and grass. I didn't notice the grass/dirt til I moved the CoolBed actually. And it's past 6am and I only got into bed about an hour and a half before she woke me up so I'm a tad on the tired side. Roll Eyes

Anyway thanks for reading and thanks in advance for any suggestions, comments, orrrr any questions, etc.


Mir Smile
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Miriam - Mia's Mom
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« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2008, 11:41:37 AM »

I would stop feeding her for at least 24 hours.  You might feel like you're starving her but she should have some time to get her tummy to settle.  Next I would crate her so she can relax.  I have no idea what the floor licking is but I'd be worried she'd pick up something on the floor that might make her sick.  Make sure she has access to water but no food for 24 hours.  Once the 24 hours are up boil hamburger & rice and give her SMALL portions of it.  Don't put down a cup.  Give her 1/4 of a cup and give her a few hours to digest it.  If she holds it down give her another 1/4 cup...  small meals that are bland. 

She may have eaten something that's not agreeing with her and she just needs time to work it all out.  It doesn't sound overly unusual.  Just be thankful it's the front end and not the back end!
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« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2008, 12:04:54 PM »

Ditto fuji's advice.

The hiccupy thing sounds like a reverse sneeze....weird, but no biggy.  If it really bothers you, you can usually get it to stop by covering the end of her nose with the palm of your hand until she stops trying to do it.  That always works for me, but when I try to teach others, it is hit or miss if it works...not sure what they do different...but you have to block the nostrils completely. 
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« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2008, 12:51:30 PM »

I dont know but could she have something on her tongue that she is trying to get off? Sometimes frosty will get a hair or something on her tongue and lick the carpet or the couch trying to get whatever it is off her tongue
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« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2008, 04:10:08 PM »

I'm sorry to throw cold water, but I would be very concerned.  I'm just finishing up Dr. Nicholas Dodman's current book, "The Well Adjusted Dog" (he's head of the Animal Behavior Clinic at the Cummings School of Veterinary Medicine at Tufts University.)  He dealt a lot with medical matters in this book, and wrote quite a bit about repetitive disorders: 

"In situations where an energetic dog's biological objectives are thwarted by environmental shortcomings and restrictions, dogs, like other species, develop various coping strategies.  These strategies often manifest as repetitive disorders, formerly called stereotypies, but now more commonly referred to as compulsive behaviors.  These behaviors have been misconstrued by owners and veterinarians alike as meaningless anomalies.  A stereotypy, by definition, is a pointless, mindless, repetitive behavior that serves no obvious function." 

Under this business of stereotypy, he writes about "surface licking":

"Some dogs, for reasons unknown, develop licking compulsions that are not self-directed but rather are focused on external objects such as varnished surfaces, floors, carpets, and even metal stoves.  ...  But this condition may also be a manifestation of a form of seizure activity, ..." 

Then he discusses stone/rock chewing; grass eating and dirt swallowing; pica (abnormal craving or appetite for nonfood substances).  I don't want to get you upset, but I would watch Mia closely.  As I recall, there was no discussion of vomiting in connection with these behaviors, but what struck me was the episodic character of these actions.  Sort of an "on - off" type of thing.  To my mind it would suggest something happening periodically inside the dog, or happening periodically to the dog.

One thing I want to say - one time I brought Angel home from being boarded and as soon as she got in the house she headed for the water bowl and drank gallons of water, and then proceeded to go into the living room and throw it all up.  She was wildy excited to be back home, and I attribute throwing up the water to this.  She has never done this since. 

If I were you, I would print out your posting, telling the various symptoms and take it to your vet and see what he/she thinks is going on.  It all sounds so very strange to me.  Especially all that licking.  I honestly don't want to get you upset.  You asked for comments and I can tell that you are stressed out by what happened, so thought I would just mention this for your consideration.  At the very least, just keep a real close eye on Mia, but I'm sure you will and you don't need me to say so.  Keep us posted please.
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« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2008, 05:03:45 PM »

Was Mia licking the place on the floor where she threw up?  Could it be that there was some sort of food spill or something else that might have still left a scent even after you cleaned it up?
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« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2008, 05:51:54 PM »

Was Mia licking the place on the floor where she threw up?  Could it be that there was some sort of food spill or something else that might have still left a scent even after you cleaned it up?

But, wasn't she licking the dirt outside, too?  And cabinets?  Despite that, has the floor been cleaned with some new product that she likes the taste of but is making her ill?  You might just clean the floor with clear water in case she continue to lick it.

One time an eskie on this board got hold of a tape cassette (?) and part of the ribbon was down his throat or caught around his tongue.  Could something be lodged inside her mouth?  I'm only guessing.

Since banner eskies said it might be a reverse sneeze, I looked up YouTube and found some videos on it.  You might check that out.
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miree
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« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2008, 07:47:16 PM »

Hello everyone,
figured I would put an update...

I woke Mia at 10:00am (when I got up), she had some water and was basically fine and dandy, back to normal. Played with my sister a while even, then she konked out on a carpet runner for at least an hour. Then she woke up and stood up very quickly (as if something poked her and she was startled) and she began heaving and heaving (mind you, had no breakfast yet) and threw up a good sized chunk (bout 3" long, 1" high, 1" wide...was a spread out mound, sort of) and then a smaller one next to it. It was greenish brown sludge, dirt and dead grass that she had eaten this morning before she fell asleep. Then again right after that about 6-8 feet away in front of the fridge, more greenish liquid and the dirt. And then two dollar coin sized ones a few feet away from that last one but they were both liquidy greenish stuff. (1:30p)

So I waited. Gave her a teaspoon of Pepto (2:15p), which she didn't take to as fervently as she did this morning (before she threw it up) so I had to bribe her with a dot of peanut butter with it and she cleaned it up, cleaned the spoon and some drops that had gotten to the floor as well.

She hasn't eaten since last night, still fasting. The Pepto from this afternoon has stayed down.(almost three hours now) And I just came from Walgreens with some Pedialyte as she isn't going for her water bowl it seems.. I'm having a hard time finding out how much to give her though so I haven't given it to her yet and figured I would update here since I'm online anyway trying to figure this out. Anyone? Do I give it by weight? I found somewhere online someone said they gave their 60lb dog 3/4 cup every 6 hours but.. Mia is only about 20-25 lbs ...


So onto the questions/comments:

The floor has not been cleaned with any new solvents/any solvents. I've been quite the fan of clear clean water and on the ground on my hands and knees to make sure there's no dirt or anything dropped or spilled for her to get a hold of. And I use papertowels so i can see just what I'm getting up off the floor.

I have checked and explored the inside of her mouth, roof of her mouth, gums, teeth, tongue and there is nothing lodged in her throat or stuck in or on or around any other part of her mouth, gums, tongue or anything that I could see. She was being a good sport with my explorations.

I did look up a reverse sneeze quite some time ago but I will look again and see... I just found this vid and it is pretty similar to what Mia is doing but I will have to put up the video I got of her doing it... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1oPOGZ0lU4

Mia was not licking the floor where she threw up. She would sniff it, walk away and lick elsewhere. I would pick up her vomit and then scrub the floor w/a papertowel and hot water though in the places where she did... ?

Paula the seizure activity is really ... somethin... I am keeping a good eye on her, thank you for sharing that. I don't think it's obsessive licking and she has never done it before and only has done it since her belly has been acting weird, and after she vomits or goes poo (just these two days though, she's never done it before), she's done with it and is fine. Same w/the reverse sneezing, if that's what it is. Only right before she vomits/part of the heaving and then she's done. She did get up from a nap and do it but there was no vomiting ... I'll try covering the nose and see if it helps like banner said because she surely does look stressed out when it happens.

And about the boiled hamburger and rice... white or brown rice, and can I mix it with her food if softened instead of the beef/chicken, why/why not?

24 hrs mark for the fasting is 6:00pm so I have about an hour left to go back to the store if need be to get some white rice, we have brown, and the ground beef as we have none in house.

Thanks guys  Hershey Kiss






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Miriam - Mia's Mom
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« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2008, 08:47:05 PM »

I hope that Mia feels better soon!   If she is doing the reverse sneezing, if you are not used to seeing it, it does look and sound pretty bad.  The first time Jasmine did it as a puppy, I seriously thought that she was going to die until I was told what it was, and that it is common and "normal" in dogs.

With Jasmine it comes and goes, sometimes she gets it a few times a day and then sometimes not for months at a time.
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« Reply #9 on: October 03, 2008, 09:04:49 PM »

Oh, gosh Miree. I don't know what to tell you. I think everyone has given good advice so far. We'll be sending positive healing vibes Mia's way. Keep us posted. 
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« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2008, 09:09:22 PM »

Give extra hugs and kisses to Mia from all of us.  I hope she feels better soon and be sure to keep us posted. 

I have never heard of the excessive licking thing so it would be interesting to hear why she is doing it.  I know that when Yuki was about to get sick she would lick her lips like something was on her lips but never something like licking the entire floor. 

Sending you (((((((((hugs)))))))))) and (((((((( Hershey Kiss Hershey Kiss Hershey Kiss))))))))))).
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« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2008, 09:16:17 PM »

Poor Mia! We hope she feels better soon.
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« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2008, 11:51:40 PM »

Paula the seizure activity is really ... somethin... I am keeping a good eye on her, thank you for sharing that. I don't think it's obsessive licking and she has never done it before and only has done it since her belly has been acting weird, and after she vomits or goes poo (just these two days though, she's never done it before), she's done with it and is fine. Same w/the reverse sneezing, if that's what it is. Only right before she vomits/part of the heaving and then she's done. She did get up from a nap and do it but there was no vomiting ... I'll try covering the nose and see if it helps like banner said because she surely does look stressed out when it happens.

I don't think it's a habit at this point - if the licking continued for, say, weeks then I'd be more concerned but it sounds to me like it's a temporary thing that's happening in conjunction with the vomiting.

And about the boiled hamburger and rice... white or brown rice, and can I mix it with her food if softened instead of the beef/chicken, why/why not?

24 hrs mark for the fasting is 6:00pm so I have about an hour left to go back to the store if need be to get some white rice, we have brown, and the ground beef as we have none in house.

I don't think you want to mix anything with the rice & beef - the idea is to keep it bland and easy to digest - dog food typically has a lot of stuff in it - you want to keep this simple.  That's why you want to boil the ground beef so there's not even the grease from the beef in there after you drain it.

I've only heard of folks using white rice though I don't know that brown rice would be much (if any) different....
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« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2008, 12:24:21 AM »

Paranoid question... do you use a swifer?
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miree
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« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2008, 02:06:00 AM »

We have a swiffer yes, but I have been using water instead. My brother mopped everywhere with pinesol once, with good intentions, but I went after him with the hot water and tried to scrub it all off because I just don't think she could lick it all off safely  =/ I mean I understand the cleanliness but not if it'l kill the puppy Frown

Steve I also think that the licking is only a temporary thing. She hasn't done it since...

I went to Safeway after I sent the last update and bought some ground beef and white rice. Made it for her and she ate at 7:20p. I didn't put anything in either, just boiled. Strained the beef. Smells pretty good lol 
She has kept it down. Went out for a solid (but small) #2 almost immediately after eating as well.  And I gave her 1/4 cup of pedialyte at 5:30p with some water after and she kept that down too.

So far so good I think.

I was concerned about the excessive licking because I read online a few places that it could be indicative of bloat and/or blockage. Frown So I was hoping it wasn't either. And since she is able to keep her food down I'm doubting that it's either of those...


So.. I guess we'll see how tonight goes if she wakes me up crying in the middle of the night again.

Thanks all Smile
She's getting plenty of love and extra hugs and kisses from everyone since she's Miss Sickie Smile
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« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2008, 04:43:49 AM »

Glad to hear that Mia is keeping everything down and that she's doing better.  And, hope YOU are getting a good night's rest.  Ramses sends lots of hugs and kisses.   Hershey Kiss Hershey Kiss Hershey Kiss Hershey Kiss
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« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2008, 09:16:19 AM »

Poor Mia!  I hope she feels better soon!  It is so tough when our babies are sick!
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« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2008, 11:48:36 AM »

Good to hear that Mia is feeling better and is keeping her food down.
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« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2008, 12:42:00 PM »

How's Mia feeling today?
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« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2008, 02:33:04 PM »

Welp!
I tried the white rice & boiled beef last night. Twas a hit. And then a smaller amount a couple hours before bed, both of which she kept down. And I made her breakfast 9:45am with a side of Pedialyte, both of which she also kept down.
And she apparently has quite the appetite!! I made 3/4 cup earlier and she wanted more when she was done and sat by the stove waiting and whining lol
So I'm going to make her another little bit to see how she does... (going for two hours later so 11:45a) ... but after she uses le dirt though because she's had plenty go IN but no bowel movement yet since last night...  I think she's a tad confused by the weather change... it's wet and rainy out and I'm sure everything smells different to her so she goes sniffing around and won't perform any of her potty duties for quite some time if at all.  Confused
But overall she seems quite merry now, playing with her toys, has an appetite, jumping up at people and generally being a terd, and has yet to have anything remotely close to a hershey squirt (yay!), just the vomiting, but she hasn't done that since.... yesterday at 1:30pm. So THUMBS UP for now!!

Thank you all, all of the support is absolutely awesome  Hershey Kiss Hershey Kiss
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« Reply #20 on: October 04, 2008, 03:42:31 PM »

Glad 2 hear Mia is feeling better!

Kathy
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« Reply #21 on: October 04, 2008, 04:32:55 PM »

 Happy
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« Reply #22 on: October 04, 2008, 04:35:04 PM »

Glad to hear Mia is feeling better. Sounds like you may have started something with the ground beef and rice! She'll be begging you to cook for her every night!! LOL!!
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« Reply #23 on: October 04, 2008, 04:43:23 PM »

Oh gosh I know. I didn't give her the second helping til just now because she was napping and she finished it up and is sitting by the stove waiting for more lol Little piglet!!
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« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2008, 12:37:11 AM »

I don't want to frighten you but I would still keep a close eye on Mia.  I know when Shasta had her blockage she would go hours before throwing up.  Sometimes it was 12 hours or more and then she would be sick.  She could not poop at all.  An x-ray showed the blockage.  It was grass that she had eaten and it was like a birds nest in her tummy.  She would do the excessive gulping and licking.

I sure hope Mia feels better soon.
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