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Author Topic: Ch vs Grand Champion  (Read 27233 times)
Eskielvr
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« on: June 21, 2008, 12:07:22 AM »

Well really, what's the point in a Grand Champion? UKC's Grand Champion is the equivalent to AKC's Champion. You're either a Champion, or you're not. I never did understand why UKC did the Gr Ch. as it would seem to me that the Champion title would be lessened.
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« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2008, 12:43:00 AM »

Well really, what's the point in a Grand Champion? UKC's Grand Champion is the equivalent to AKC's Champion. You're either a Champion, or you're not. I never did understand why UKC did the Gr Ch. as it would seem to me that the Champion title would be lessened.

   Excuse me, but do you know anything about UKC championships?

   a) "You're either a Champion, or you're not." - is correct! You are either an UKC champion or an AKC champion. A champion is a champion having gone through the process and attained that title.  Is a Canadian dog champion lesser then a UKC or AKC champion?
 
    b) In AKC a dog or bitch who has finished their championship CAN be "specialed" or can continue to be shown for BOB and for that almighty Group pull or placement.  This can be done a few times or for nearly the lifetime of the dog or the pocketbook of the owner.

     c) Nice thing about UKC you can "special" your beloved champion only a few times and get another title - that of
GRAND CHAMPION
and he or she does have to beat other dogs for that title. 
Quite unlike AKC where a "special" may be the only dog of that breed in competition.
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101eskies
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« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2008, 12:56:51 AM »

And I actually think it is more difficult to get a Grand Championship on a dog than any other title. It is by far more difficult than to get the Champion title in UKC anyway.
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Miracle Eskimos

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« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2008, 10:13:36 AM »

Well really, what's the point in a Grand Champion? UKC's Grand Champion is the equivalent to AKC's Champion. You're either a Champion, or you're not. I never did understand why UKC did the Gr Ch. as it would seem to me that the Champion title would be lessened.

When you earn a Grand Champion title in UKC you know you have earned a quality title.  In our area it is usually a dozen wonderful Champions in a ring competing against each other.  We need 5 wins against Champions only under three different judges to earn a Grand Champion title!  Truly a title to be proud of!  I wish AKC offered something like that also
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« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2008, 10:58:18 AM »

Well really, what's the point in a Grand Champion? UKC's Grand Champion is the equivalent to AKC's Champion. You're either a Champion, or you're not. I never did understand why UKC did the Gr Ch. as it would seem to me that the Champion title would be lessened.

The GRCH title is something to truly be proud of.  When most of my dogs earned their titles they were competing in rings of champions that were about 10 dogs...no easy feat. 
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AKC CH/UKC GRCH/IABCA Int'l CH Caleb, AKC CH/UKC GRCH Tucker, UKC CH Chloe, AKC CH/UKC GRCH Crystal, AKC CH/UKC GRCH Shimmer and Zurie!
and...Kody and Chance...the "non show" dogs
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« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2008, 11:02:50 AM »

I might also add to the "value of the GR Ch" conversation that in AKC with a "known" handler you can put a CH title on ANY dog...it will cost you, but it can be done.  In UKC no professional handlers are allowed, so you can't gain that advantage with a judge.  Thus they are MORE LIKELY to be judging dogs rather than the "north end of the lead". 

Most AKC judges I don't really know outside of being judged by them because they are not eskie breeders.  Many UKC judges are also Eskie breeders, so to be picked to win a big Champions or Gr Champions class under a well known, very knowledgeable eskie breeder is more meaningful than 100 wins under a judge who only read the standard once or twice and more than likely will only partially apply it to the dogs in the ring.  I know the 2 wins that I most value are under judges whose opinion I respect in regards to eskies. 
« Last Edit: June 21, 2008, 11:18:46 AM by banner_eskies » Logged

Eskielvr
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« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2008, 10:29:44 AM »

If UKC is so much harder to get Championships on, then why is it the venue that they always refer new people to when they first start out? I figure if I had a show dog that conformed to the breed standard, it'd be a lot harder for me to get a CH. in AKC because I'm competing with professional handlers and other politics, than it would be in UKC where the professionals are not allowed and there are less politics.

What I meant about the regular CH title (in UKC) being lessened was, it'd seem people would rather aim for the Gr CH. title than the CH. title, making the Grand more "valuable", per say.

My point was, I realize the UKC Championships are harder to attain, but why do they need 2 different CH classes??  That was what I was asking and was my point.

I NEVER said or implied anything about UKC titles being of less value than AKC!  I was comparing the UKC CH. of possibly being of less value than the UKC Gr CH, since it would seem people would only want the "Grand" CH title.


Mary, why do you only post snotty remarks towards me anymore these days? You hardly post anything anymore, but when you do, you also post them in a mean tone. What's wrong?  I asked an HONEST question. I suppose if I DID know anything about UKC Championships, then I wouldn't be ASKING these questions then now would I?  I miss the nice, kind, patient Mary. I liked her better.  I shouldn't have to defend my posts all the time because someone else takes them out of context.

Just forget it. I don't care about the answers to my questions anymore. I'm REALLY sorry I asked!!!  Frown






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« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2008, 10:37:41 AM »

Melissa, It's not the questions that are being asked that are offensive to people, they are good questions.  It's just the manner and tone they are asked that ruffles feathers a little...... Happy

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« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2008, 02:11:33 PM »

If UKC is so much harder to get Championships on, then why is it the venue that they always refer new people to when they first start out?

It is harder in UKC to get a Championship and a Grand but it is also a friendlier venue.  It is not so stuck up and political as AKC.  In UKC, you can ask the judge questions or you can ask fellow competitors questions while in AKC, that is just not done.  I love UKC shows and will travel for them (when I can afford the gas  Happy )- I will go to AKC shows but will not travel for them.
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« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2008, 02:34:44 PM »

If UKC is so much harder to get Championships on, then why is it the venue that they always refer new people to when they first start out?

It isn't harder to get Championships, it is harder to get a Grand Chmpionship.

What I meant about the regular CH title (in UKC) being lessened was, it'd seem people would rather aim for the Gr CH. title than the CH. title, making the Grand more "valuable", per say.

I think the word "grand" added there implies that already. Of course the Grand is more valuable, but you can't get on without the other first!

Maggie is an AKC Champion. There isn't much point in me continuing to show her in AKC b/c the Specials are all mostly on handlers and they obviously do the majority of the winning. So despite her quality, she is pretty much done in AKC and has been for a while. When she got her UKC Championship, I still had plenty of winning to do with her and plenty to achieve. I think that is great.

Adn Melissa, I have read and re-read your post and I don't see it as asking a simple question. It is so hard to get what a person's true tone and attitude is through e-mail and the internet, we can only read what you type and guess at your tone. I see you asking that question with a hand on your hip, tossing your hair back and a snotty attitude. Sorry if that is not the way you meant it at all but please try to see how what you type, while we sit hundreds of miles away from you, comes off to us.

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Miracle Eskimos

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« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2008, 11:15:04 PM »

Tone can be very imprecise via the internet, so it's best we all take a deep breath and just try to answer questions and reply to posts on the points, rather than letting feathers get ruffled.

As for the CH vs. Gr. Ch thing....just a few points to add to consideration here. It's already been pointed out that the general atmosphere at UKC shows is far more relaxed and friendly, so is a much easier "get your feet wet" arena than most of AKC is. We're also talking eskies here....if we were talking poodles or pomeranians, AKC would be even stiffer to deal with, so UKC is even more relaxed in those breeds. Actually, believe it or not, but the poodles have only gotten their own "national" UKC affiliated club going in the past few years! Eskies have had how long? AEDs are far more established and still very active in the UKC. Thus, competition can actually be quite stiff in UKC. But with the more relaxed atmosphere, it can actually be the best of both worlds....good competition, but not in a cut throat manner. Smile

Also....I don't know when GR. CH. was added to the lineup, but all you have to do is think about it some to see some pluses to the addition. Afterall....any allowable dog can enter in any regular show. Thus, getting a regular championship, while still an honour, is nowhere near the honour of a Gr. Ch. Afterall....the *only* competition there is with those who have also attained Ch. status. Thus, competition is *much* tougher, and therefore the wins in that ring are far more impressive, and rewarding. It's sort of like taking the cream of the crop and then taking only the best of *that* and giving it an even higher title. Also....as has been noted, in AKC, once a dog has attained its title....unless a person wants to special the dog out, it's pretty much done. In UKC, the owner can continue to show that dog....which keeps the dog on the circuit longer, and more entry fees to UKC and the local clubs. I would think that without the Gr. Ch. rounds in UKC, the shows would be nowhere near as full or exciting in the long run...something would be lacking. So, it can benefit the UKC, the local clubs, *and* the actual dogs and their owners. And it does give a greater title than without it.
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« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2008, 11:40:18 PM »

Also, aren't there credits given to the parents of a dog who gets championed/grand championed?
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« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2008, 01:45:51 AM »

Quote
Also, aren't there credits given to the parents of a dog who gets championed/grand championed?

The Championship titles are awarded by the AKC and UKC, the Kennel Clubs themselves.  The ones that you are talking about are awarded by the Parent Breed Clubs for having so many titled offspring.  They do not have to have Championship titles.  They can have Agility, Obedience, or any other title that is recognized by the Kennel Club.

The AKC and UKC have the same honors, but they call it different things...  In the AKC it is called a ROM (Register of Merit) and ROMX (Register of Merit Excellent).  In the UKC it is a AOM (Award of Merit) and AOMX (Award of Merit Excellent).

I was looking on the AKC's Parent Club website but I can not find the requirements listed there.  If my memory serves me correctly it is basically the same thing as the UKC's Parent Club requirements.

In the UKC for a female, she must have a recent CERF and/or Optigen test, and she must also have her OFA test done.  For an AOM she must have at least 5 titled offspring.  For an AOMX she must have at least 10 titled offspring.  For a male he must have sired at least 10 for his AOM, and 20 for his AOMX.

Our Sadie has her AOM and will hopefully soon have her ROM.  We're keeping our fingers crossed that she will be able to get her AOMX and ROMX. Big Grin

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Rob Brown
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Eskielvr
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« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2008, 10:53:39 AM »

I thought AKC also gives out AOM? They did for the Specialty and don't they do that for Westminster as well??
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« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2008, 11:13:03 AM »

Quote
I thought AKC also gives out AOM? They did for the Specialty and don't they do that for Westminster as well??

The AKC AOM placement is a little different.  In the bigger AKC shows like the Specialty and Westminster where there are so many dogs they want be able to honor more dogs than just the Best of Breed and Best of Opposite Sex winners.  Basically the AOM in the AKC is the judges way of saying "your dog didn't win, but he/she is good enough that it deserves to be recognized."

The UKC also gives out AOM placements in bigger shows, Stella won one at the Premier, and her daddy won one at the UKC National Specialty.  But those are like the AKC's placement AOM.

The UKC Parent Breed Club AOM is not a placement, but a recognition for a certain number of titled offspring.

I know...  It gets confusing when they use the same term for multiple meanings...  Roll Eyes
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Rob Brown
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