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Author Topic: My visit to the behaviourist with Kooza  (Read 445 times)
Saint Mom
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« on: March 17, 2011, 11:48:39 AM »

Bare with me…it’s long but interesting and thought if it can help me, it certainly can help other dogs around who "suffer" from that type of behaviour.

Since Kooza was becoming more and more « insecure » towards people and dogs I decided to consult with one of the best, if not the best, behaviorist in my area. I realize he hit his teenage phase but it was not looking as good as I would have liked it, especially when he snapped (with reason although unacceptable the obed teacher last week). Behaviorist agreed that those trainers did wrong and Kooza acted like a dog would do, although it was not necessarily as humans we can agree on but in a dog world, yes. But that is another topic in itself! Tongue

We talked for an hour (at $142 he better be the best) in order to sort the whole thing out and guide Kooza (and us) back on track. I knew what he’d tell me but I needed his reassurance on my thoughts and tips on how to achieve it the fastest/best way for him and us.

So he saw Kooza (worked with him and never made a real contact yet as dog is not ready for this - he took it slow vs rushing into stuff and having to go backwards again). Nothing wrong to report with this little fellow. Very well-behaved, calm, able to be handled by someone else, excellent focus. Heck! He wanted to trade for 3 weeks my dog with his rescue dog who’s too excited and wanting to jump on everyone and never has a off switch (a lab/husky mix – about 3YO). I told him it was a deal if he could bring me my little Kooza back to what he was before his teenage phase kicked in. Not sure Sylvain would agree though. It would be a hard-fight battle. Hahhaa

His socialization was top-notch, no doubt about it. Nothing more a breeder or us could have done. His “fear” of people/dog may be caused by 2 things. I’m not going to get too technical (too long and too complex in a post) and I have to get to work too. Hihi Most of this comes from the fact he does not like to be touched by stranger. We’ll get him to learn that being touched is fun, nothing to harm you.

1)   Reaching a certain age (teenage years) some of your brain (cortex part) has sort of a disk drive clean up that happens. It erases some of the things sometimes. In Kooza’s case, it could have been the socialization aspect. Nothing to really do to prevent this either. It just happens. So we need to reinforce that meeting people/dog is fun.

2)   It could have been created by himself or the people reinforcing it: He sees a lady coming his way (but she’s entering a store as planned but he did not know this) and he barks and she goes away. He just cranked one notch his “power”. So he repeats this over and over as he gets more “powerful”. Or when he did something, we (me and Sylvain) or people around him reinforced certain things without knowing it as it is very subtle. Not mistakes that were done but it is something we need to work on now.

All this said and done what do we do next!!!! A lot of work is coming for us as we need to socialize him again! Arkkkk.

He does not like to be brushed (nails are ok though) although he will tolerate it but at some points (probably 15 minutes if not less) he is starting to show signs (calming signals). I was ignoring them but should have not (even if he was fed treats when acting “ok”. For now, I will have to groom him 3x/day but keep the session to 5 minutes max. Within weeks (long weeks), I will be able to extend for a much as is needed to complete him in one session  without any wrong signals of discomfort being sent to me.

We’ll be using 2 different techniques (a lot of you will have a flash as we talked about it often here). But I’ll repeat as it is always useful.

1)   When he’s with people he knows but unsure. They will have to ignore our arrival (or ignore him when they get into my home). I keep him on leash and as soon as he looks at them, click/treat. They are not to touch him right away, unless he goes for it.

2)   We’ll be using the Behavior Adjustment Training method (BAT). This means we keep at a “safe” distance and Kooza looks at the dog or person and turns his head away or looks at me, I click and treat. With time, we’ll move forward towards them. This is called operant counter-conditioning. It is with a marker signal and systematic desensitization to build social skills, confidence around the trigger, and trust in the handler. Used mostly in fear and aggression. Kooza will be the one deciding when he is ready to move a step forward. We’ll guide him to this.

So that will be a lot of work for us in the next 6 weeks as it is a daily thing. I’ve lined up friends to work with me and we’ll also have to park by malls (little ones with less action first) and go from there.

He gave me soooo much information that I’ll have to write them or I’ll forget some points. I also ordered this morning the book he recommended I read:

Calming Signals from Turid Rugass and I decided to order Canine Behaviour – A photo Illustrated handbook by Barbara Handelman that was also recommended when I took my cyno classes a few years ago.

We can also resume his obedience classes but no one is allowed to approach (touch) him yet. I use the BAT for those classes. If Kooza decides to go to them, that is ok. But no pushing him to them.

I have to video tape as much as I can and send him our work in progress as he wants to see how we do in order to "correct" me along the way to avoid mistakes. One is that I talk to much to my dog (heuh...us??? Nah!!! Do we talk to our dogs that much???? Nahhh! ahahaahah). So when he barks, instead of trying to say "shhhhhhhh". Ignore. He stopped, click and treat. So reinforce the behaviour I want and ignore the bad ones. Easssssssy. He does not have an eskie (let along 3 at home). haahahahhahahah

He’s a smart dog. No doubt about it. So we’ll get him on the right track in no time so he can tour with us next summer and meet and be petted by many of you. Hihi I have to work really hard until then.

Life is never boring with an eskie or 2 or 3. Smile
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Helene-Saint mom

Even if you are on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there!
BanaerEskies
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« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2011, 12:54:45 PM »

thanks for such a detailed post!  it is helpful to read about your visit and we will anxiously await your videos and progress reports!!
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eskieagilitygal
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« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2011, 03:13:13 PM »

So hard not to be there...my first baby going through the terrible teens.  I know he'll grow up to be a perfect dog with all that you both do with him.Lol! 
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Me, Winston,Taffee, Blu and Little Tasha
Saint Mom
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« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2011, 03:57:12 PM »

LOL Tammy. It was funny the other day as Sylvain said he would trade-in Taffee for a while, while Kooza settles down.

I told him to forget this...the girl may be a kisser...but she gets up at night 1 or 2 times for a pee. I think he changed his mind. LOL

I tried with Winston-grumpy-old-man... Nah...he sticks with Taffee. Wonder why!!! He does not want male compet in the house I think. lol

Yeah. I'm not worried. He'll turn out perfect. I prefer to deal with those "issues" now than wait too long and hit the road on a wrong curb. Easier now. Much easier. Although it will be a lot of work, it will be fun to take him out later on in life and enjoy our little spazzy dog.

Like trainer said when I left. There are much worst dogs out there. This one is a breeze to him. A cool one. He has never seen a cutie like him in this breed. Not even sure he met an eskie before.

And the trainer yesterday laughed when I said I wanted a calm dog for my next one (meaning Kooza). He said he could not see what was calm about him. He's an energy ball. lol
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Helene-Saint mom

Even if you are on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there!
Kathy
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« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2011, 10:22:34 PM »

Very interesting!  Thanks for sharing all of this.

I have the Turid Rugaas book and the video, too.  Unfortunately, it's VHS format and we don't have a player anymore.  She also has a website with lots of articles.

Good luck with all the work over the next six weeks.  Keep us posted on your progress.
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Kathy and the Snowpups
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Saint Mom
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« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2011, 10:20:19 AM »

Well Kooza is 15 months old today. What happened since that behaviourist visit? A lot....for the better of course.

I'm lucky to have had Tammy (and Lenise) to guide me through this "ordeal". They truly were my guides and I thank them for their patience and wise words. Smile

Kooza hated grooming. He even bit me the 1st or 2nd time I had him and had tried a few times within that first-second week I had him - but did not let him win of course but he was showing signs of discomfort. Now, with time and lots of goodies, but mostly watching his signals, I can now groom him a good 30 minutes (if not more) and not a negative look comes from him. And I love grooming my pets. It is almost a calming therapy for me. And grooming Kooza is now a charm. Perfect ending!

The biggest news of all.....HE CAN SLEEP through the nights and more. Yeah!!!! He gets up when we get up. That is so neat. hihi He sleeps on one of our pillows (on top of our head - he has his own pillow as there is no way I'll sleep with a pee/butt smelling pillow hahaha). We can feel his breath on on our neck when he sleeps. But watch out if one of us wakes up. He is up like a watch guard ready for day - but can fall asleep when we go back to sleep. hihi

I had issues putting him through housebreaking. He was ok during the night. He was ok when we were home because he got taken out very often. But as soon as we'd be away from his sight, or at work, he'd pee where ever he happened to be. Not all the time but too often. I'd come home from work and found poop on the kitchen tile and a pee near his pee pad. He'd refuse being "isolated" from us (meaning in the powder room, or left in the kitchen area"). He'd bark up a storm like you would not believe. Drove us insane many times! So I took the bull by the horns and borrowed a huge crate (fits a lab) and he was back to crate-training during the day when we could not watch him. Spent 3 weeks that way during work hours (I have no clue if he barked up a storm...I was not there to hear it!!!!) and I tested him for a week (no longer crated) and he's been a week without one single drop of something on our floor (I'm probably going to jink myself here this morning!). It took a very long time for him to catch that he'd have to go outside...and hold it until we got home. My good friend who's a breeder of CKC told me that for some little dog, it may never happened to be housebroken. It is frequent. And she's thinking that at night, he sleeps but during the day, when we're away, he happens to be more "distracted" with noises, etc and the needs to go is "there". But for the time-being, the re-crating seemed to have work. He loves that big crate and runs to it the minute he's back from the outside (even though he is no longer using it), just in case a pizzle stick or rawhide would happen to have landed inside by magic. hihi

He is still verrrry shy of people but at least will go to smell them, and accept a pat on the head but not more than this. He is fine with those he knows very well. We worked a lot on this but it is not a won-battle just yet. At least he has not "snapped" anyone since then. He'll smell and bark and back away to come back to them. hihi A lot of work on my side to "train" people on how to approach a dog, any dog! No matter how cute it can be.

He still ignores all other dogs he does not know. He could not care less that they play. He does his own thing and sticks by me or Sylvain. He adores Takoda. It's like a shadow to him. In fact, he's probably glued to him and I never noticed. haha

He does not play with Nuuk except for tug-o-war. Weird heuh. He loves cats. Plays with them but can be overly excited and snaps (playfull way) at their faces. My cats don't care much and let him get away with it and when they've had enough, they reach for heights.  Tongue In general, he's very gentle with them. But once into the game, it's like he forgets they're kitties...and not Tako. He's a rough player. Never really played smoothly. He'd be a good wrestler for sure. He may be small, but he can push it. hihi

End of Spring, we finished his obed classes at this "specialized" place and will not return. I hate the way the training is done, and do not like what I see around me. Their training methods are not compatible with mine at all. They are sooo focused on obedience competition and there was no fun in training him. It was a good experience for training but that's it. Every time I got out of that class, I would be so demolished (for many things), that Sylvain wanted me to drop out before but I wanted to finish what I had started. Sylvain rarely saw me smiled when class was over. That is sooo not me.

I called back this behaviourist to report where we were at now and mentioned to him that I want to take a Zen Obedience class with him starting in November (his next session). He asked me to come to a "free" class last Wed. night to see where we stand and see if Kooza could stand an-hour class without barking too much, etc.

So I head there and of course he had to smoke the whole place for 15 minutes. Bark bark bark...you know...the high-pitched tone one. So while trainer was working with the class, I was working on Kooza's attitude. At the end of the "trial" he was ok and was able to shut up even with other dogs barking or moving around. But he is very sensitive to people/dogs moving around. But trainer said he sees no reason not to have him in a class as he is just as good as the other one. He's way more advanced than the "beginner" dogs there as he does all the commands already (sit, down, wait, come, relax, etc - all leash-less) but I insist on going to that beginner class so he can be soaked in a real class environment vs the one I attended last spring where we were basically one-on-one with little distractions. Great for competition...but no so for the needs I have right now. By the way, teacher was telling class that when a dog barks like Kooza was doing, to do what I was doing to him: keep him busy by calling him back to me. I was making Kooza do his "turn", give me 5 tricks, his down, sit, etc. And to teacher, this is what you needed to do. Get your dog's attention. I was doing exactly what he would have recommended someone to do. That is if you are in a class for instance. But if you were somewhere that would not disturb anyone and a dog was barking  (lunging on leash, etc) like crazy, you simply ignore him. Not a word, not a tug on his leash. Ignore. It may take 5 minutes...even more. Ignore. But once the dog looks at you (while stopping his "bad" behaviour), click and praise. You work on "extinguishing" a behaviour by itself. It will need to be repeated often. But that is the best way to recondition a dog. Ignore and praise the good. I know...easier said then done as we talk to much and if a dog is barking, there is no way he'll be able to focus on you. His mind is already elsewhere. And you have 4/10 of a second to react. So if you work on your dog...you're not watching tv or vaccuming. You need to concentrate on training. Nothing else. It will pay off...quickly.

So overall he is a verrrrry good dog and I'm happy to have him in our family. He's really a little clown, always in a good mood. If I get mad (which is extremely rare) at him, he still has this cute face of "what have done wrong?" with a huge smile and tail waggling. You simply cannot get mad at him. It's just impossible. Little love bug.

So we have a few remaining issues but I'm confident that once this obedience class is over and I have better control of him (although he sticks by me like glue), but mostly he has a better control of his "emotions", he is going to be enrolled into agility. Now that Fall is here, I'm getting the equipment out in my yard and we'll start having fun. He was too young before (at least to my liking) to do a lot of those jumps, etc, and agility will be great for him (and me). He already knows the name of the equipment as we played on it on/off since he's been with us. But nothing serious.

Puppyhood and teenage years are basically behind him now...so welcome to the real world buddy!  Big Grin

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Helene-Saint mom

Even if you are on the right track, you'll get run over if you just sit there!
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« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2011, 01:30:02 PM »

My dog's seeing a behaviourist too for his anxiety - had our first session last night and it went pretty well.  I'm hoping it will be just what he needs because this dog's always had one paw out the door since we got him!  It was pretty expensive too
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