I have a problem

[allie]

Gunner has taken to barking and charging people since we moved into the apartment which also causes Allie to start it when Gunner does it. I have Started walking them seperate. But it seems to excalate with gunner when any kids our around ,The people in the complex say that the dogs are just mean ,but the kids through water and yell and run at them.
Help
maybe a muzzle

[snowflake's mom]

Wow, sounds like the kids are the ones who are mean.   

I think walking them separately for now and doing a lot of one on one behavior modification with Gunner will help (others will be able to address this more specifically, as they have more experience).  Also, could you walk Gunner at a time when he may only encounter one or two children, until the behavior mods have had a chance to start working? 

I'm so sorry this is happening, but I think you need to get a handle on it quickly.  I know others will be able to give really great advice - I mostly just want to say I'm sorry it's happening and I hope you can find something that works! 

[Yukon]

It sounds like Gunner may be "reactive" to children.  Typically, a dog becomes "reactive" when something causes him anxiety -- say, children running at him, or bikes, or even other dogs.  He's not used to the noise and the running and whatnot, so he gets anxious and overreacts to seeing the perceived "threat" that makes him anxious.

If that is the case, the first thing you might try to do is to avoid having him "practice" the behavior.  Like Snowflake's mom said, try to walk him at times during the day when he's not likely to see children or people who make him nervous.  (Walking Gunner and Allie separately is also a good idea so you can focus on overcoming this.) This is important -- the longer he continues to repeat the behavior, the more it is likely to escalate and the longer it will take to teach him to stay calm around his perceived "threats" that trigger his overreaction.

Then, I would suggest you start counter-conditioning and desensitizing him to the things that make him nervous.  Basically, he needs to begin to associate the kids and noise, and running, etc with good things -- treats, toys, and things that make him happy and calm.   I would strongly suggest calling a professional trainer or behaviorist in your area to help with this.  If that isn't possible, there are a ton of good books out there that are very helpful.  My favorite one is "Control Unleashed" by Leslie McDevitt.  She also just released a DVD where she demonstrates how to do the various "games" that she talks about in her book that teach the dog to think the kids running and playing is a fun game that ends with the dog getting treats.  Patricia McConnell also has a short, very inexpensive book called "Feisty Fido" that deals with this.

There are other posts on the board with more detailed info on this.  If you search for "reactive" you get a bunch of results.  Here are a couple:

http://forum.eskie.net/index.php/topic,17828.0.html

http://forum.eskie.net/index.php/topic,17515.0.html


Other ideas are to walk him with a muzzle (although you also want to do the other exercises, so that the muzzle doesn't make him even more anxious), or you might try a head halter to help control him/redirect his attention away from what's making him nervous.  I would definitely call a professional, however, to help me make sure I was using these tools in an effective manner.

[snowballsmom]

also let me add-
as these kids are charging your dog, whether they be attended by an adult or unattended, do not hesitate to holler "STOP!!!" at them.

all too often we worry abotu training our dogs, which is important, yes, but we discount the importance of kids having manners, which many do not. i have reprimanded many unattended kids (why are so many unattended?!?!) who thought nothing of approaching 2 strange barking dogs.

so while the training part is important, i also feel it's also important to be your dogs advocate and do your best to stop these kids from doing whatever it is that gets him going- to teach them proper dog manners. and if oyu have to do it by scaring them, then i say, have at it. i see nothing wrong with telling a kid that if he throws water at a dog, he WILL get bit, eventually. jesus, what is wrong with these demon kids anyway today?!?!

[Paula N.]

For sure it is the fault of the kids.  I'm with Snowballsmom - what is with kids these days?  More importantly, what is with the kids' parents?  I have an especially severe problem with kids up the street from me.  Their parents let these kids out to play in the street.  Every single house in this development has a front and a back yard, yet the parents let the kids play in the street.  It's no wonder there are problems.

I can't walk Angel up the street when these kids are out.  Most of the kids in this neighborhood just adore Angel and just want to hug and kiss her.  But the brats up the street, yell and scream and behave outrageously.  One kid violently beats the ground with a heavy wooden stick, as if he wanted to kill the ground.  I, one time only, before I stopped walking up there, crossed the street so as to keep Angel away from that stick (a wooden cane) and he crossed the street also, following me.  That was the end of walking there.  This particular kid, I was told, also stood in the middle of the street, making faces at drivers who wanted to continue up the street to their driveways, and refused to move.  Don't think this is totally Gunner's fault.

Good luck on finding a behaviorist in your area.  I don't have any, and I do need one for Sweet Pea.  Yukon always has great advice, and maybe the DVD of Control Unleashed would be more helpful than the book.  I have the book too.  Must look into the DVD.

[BanaerEskies]

allie, if you decide to look for a trainer or a behaviourist, i can assist you in that in the Houston area, (I think that is where you are located)  PM me and I will give you my phone number. 

Also look into a book called "the dog who loved too much" it has some great information on dealing with behaviour issues. 

[allie]

Thank you for all your input i am really to the point that I really do not want to cause problems  in this complex but the kids like to agitate my dogs and apartment maintance is scared of my dogs so today i was told that my dogs are being called aggressive. They are just reacting to the surroundings I know that they are being teased even when i am not here cause i have changed where i park and the children do not know if i am home are not and they run up on the porch and make noises and through those popping things when they walk by my door.

[DojiDog]

I have also found that my dogs are much better behaved when on a solo walk.  With the addition of even one other dog we magically become a pack and Doji will stare down other dogs.  When he is alone he is friendly and greets other dogs.

[Yukon]

Thank you for all your input i am really to the point that I really do not want to cause problems  in this complex but the kids like to agitate my dogs and apartment maintance is scared of my dogs so today i was told that my dogs are being called aggressive. They are just reacting to the surroundings I know that they are being teased even when i am not here cause i have changed where i park and the children do not know if i am home are not and they run up on the porch and make noises and through those popping things when they walk by my door.

Argh, that is really frustrating.  It's one thing when the dogs are reacting to children playing while on a walk; it's another thing when the dogs are being provoked in their own home.  Can you talk to the parents about this?  Maybe there might be some way to explain to the parents/kids that the dogs aren't trying to be mean, they are AFRAID of the kids, and that the teasing makes it worse... Can the dogs see the kids when they come up on your steps and walk by the door, or just hear them? Is there a way to close blinds or something so the dogs won't see them when they do this?

[Jasmine]

Sorry to hear that the kids are tomenting your dogs, and that the Eskies have to pay the price.  I have to close the blinds to my front window when I am not home, because Jasmine will go ape when she sees kids playing on the sidewalk in the front or someones walks by.

Just a thought....maybe you could open the door really quickly when you see the kids comeing up your walk, and squirt them with a water bottle and scare them, it might make them think twice about comeing right up to your door or window to torment your dogs.

[IslandEskie]

also let me add-
as these kids are charging your dog, whether they be attended by an adult or unattended, do not hesitate to holler "STOP!!!" at them.

I don't know if I would do that...  The dog may misinterpret your yelling Stop and think that the kids really are a threat.  Instead I would be welcoming the kids with smiles and a very calm voice.  I would hold Gunner back on a short lead with one hand, while shaking hands and talking with the kids in a calm cool voice.  I would try to show Gunner that even though the kids are noisy they are not a threat.

One of my pups used to be very timid around little girls, but after a few times of showing her that fast-moving loud kids are not a threat she does great with them all.  

You can teach the dog and the kids at the same time...

[snowballsmom]

never thoguht abtou that rob but we never seem to have had that problem at home as to who i am talking to, even/especially with raised voices. but i could see how in a stressor situation it could be a problem. good call.
just take mace and start maceing the out of contril kids. or, a taser. hahah. just kidding. kind of.....

[IslandEskie]

just take mace and start maceing the out of contril kids. or, a taser. hahah. just kidding. kind of.....

I like that idea the best!!!  LOL 

Seriously though...  Even when our guys will start barking at the neighbors dogs through the fence, Greg and Josh always have a problem getting them to quiet down because they get their voices raised too.  The dogs just think they're joining in the barking.  I'll give a strict "Sadie" (or whoever) to get their attention and then in a very soft almost whisper voice tell them to be quiet.  There are so many verbal and non-verbal prompts that we give our dogs without even realizing it.

Allie, one of the most important things while re-training the behavior is that you want the dog to see you as being relaxed and calm too.  If they sense that your getting nervous when the kids approach, they make think that you are feeling threatened by the kids and try to protect you from the perceived threat.

[allie]

thank yall for all the ideas and input it is going to help alot