What to do about peeing in crate

[maureenc]

He has gone since the 14th with no incidents - I'm still sleeping in the spare room to avoid a setback due to separation anxiety.

I think doing the morning feeding only is really helping.

He is up to about 6 miles a day on the treadmill and just loves it. It really calms him down a lot - he is much less "on edge"

Vet said I can work him up to 2 hours a day on there as long as he doesn't do it all in one stretch (I have him on there about 30mins per workout)

He did poop once while running (?!?) last night on the treadmill (strangest dog ever) didn't even bother to get off and take a poop break - just did it right there while running! I had just pottied him and he did both 1 & 2 - then I put him on the treadmill and he pooped again - never missed a beat. Hopefully this will not be an ingrained habit... he has only done it once...

Another funny incident from last night (I can laugh now, at the time it wasn't funny at all) he jumped off the treadmill right onto my feet and made me lose my balance (I stand over him, off to one side to supervise when he runs) so I fell onto the tread on my behind, rode the tread to the end and got dumped off the end - PINNED against the wall by the moving tread.

So I'm laying there on my side, pinned, flopping like a fish out of water - trying to push the treadmill away from the wall with my belly which was rapidly getting tread burns. (fortunately I layer my clothing)

Oh how I wish I would have had a video camera going on that one... I'm fine but the back of my hand has a nasty burn from the tread where it was pinned up against my body.

Fortunately the fall happened BEFORE the poop or it would have been a lot more traumatic...

Thought this would give you all a laugh...

[blessed woman]

Well, that's great news that he's gone this many days. I've never experienced this so I can't offer any sort of advice. But I can sure sympathize with you!

As for the treadmill fall...I can only imagine! Where was he when you were trapped?? My sister managed to do something like that all on her own. She was laughing so much she couldn't get herself upright!

[maureenc]

Just wanted to give you all an update (I know you are all SOOO fascinated with my dog's bowel habits - ha ha)

He did ok for a week but now he is back to pooping in his crate nightly.

I just don't understand it - he only eats in the morning, poops at least twice during the day - then still finds the "resources" to roll all over himself during the night. Not a lot - just enough to be disgusting.

The treadmill is great - he loves it and we are up to 3 30min workouts a day but it doesn't seem to be tiring him out enough.

The behaviorist suggested finding him a multiple dog home where he will never be alone - she thought he might do ok if he were in a pack.

Would anyone here on the board be interested in trying?

[snowballsmom]

have you asked your breeder?

[maureenc]

I did, and she was not very encouraging. Basically said she didn't think she would have much success rehoming a dog who poops all over himself every night... which I tend to agree with...

Until I talked to the behaviorist and she said basically, wait a minute - most people sleep with their dogs, so he MIGHT be fine.

And I work at home so my thought process was - most people go to work all day - he would NOT do well with that at ALL... and she said "what about if he were in a multi-dog home?"

Two points I had totally not considered, and she gave me a lot more hope for this little guy.

It took off a LOT of stress! Before, I was thinking, if I give up on him, he is a goner. Not so!

But before I can do any searching for a new home for him there are big medical issues. He has had recurring bladder infections off & on his whole short life.

It is going to cost me a small fortune for all the testing to figure out what is going on.

He has 7 more days of antibiotics (poor baby - he is sooooo sick of having pills shoved down his throat - pb or cheese notwithstanding) then back to the vet again for ultrasound, etc.

I still have not had him neutered, so that still must be done. (every time I've gone to have it done, he's infected.)

So we have a ways to go before searching for a pack.

[Kathy]

Maureen, I have re-read this whole thread to search for clues to what could be causing this. You have my complete sympathy and admiration for everything you have gone through!

One thing is popping out at me today--several times you mention how Bear poops almost without realizing it or thinking about it. Like on the treadmill. Or wherever he happens to be standing. You also mention lots of infections.  It's almost like there is something physically wrong. Something that is preventing him from realizing that he has to go, or realizing that he is going. Most dogs spin around a little and then hunch themselves over in order to poop.

I realize this doesn't explain WHY it gets all over him.  Maybe that is some type of neurosis that resulted from his early experiences with having unexplained poop in his crate.

Maybe you could take him to some sort of specialist to see if there is something wrong with the muscles that control his bowels and bladder?  It sounds like he doesn't freak out until after there is poop in his crate and then he cries because it is all over him. A normal young dog would cry because he has to go and wants to be let out. It sounds like Bear doesn't realize that he has to go, or if he does, he doesn't know what to do about it.

[jennyb]

Reading about the recurrent infections has me wondering the same thing as Kathy, is there an undiagnosed medical ailment that is causing this? 

[BamaEskies]

One thing is popping out at me today--several times you mention how Bear poops almost without realizing it or thinking about it. Like on the treadmill. Or wherever he happens to be standing. You also mention lots of infections.  It's almost like there is something physically wrong. Something that is preventing him from realizing that he has to go, or realizing that he is going. Most dogs spin around a little and then hunch themselves over in order to poop.

A few years ago, I was walking our dogs and passed a neighbor who was concerned about his dog. The dog was conscious but acting differently and had been having these episodes for awhile. I immediately recognized the dog was having some type of seizure. I then explained about my Cheyenne and all her problems. I also talked to the neighbor about the different types of seizures and even explained what most of Cheyenne's seizures were like. When I mentioned that during most of Cheyenne's seizures, she would lose her bowels, the neighbor had a look of major realization. Until then, they couldn't figure out why their dog pooped in his doghouse where he slept when he had a huge yard to go in.

I doubt seizures are what Bear is having, but I thought I would just mention that as something else that could be the problem. BTW, we really feel that Cheyenne's seizures were self-induced because she would scream for hours when she was crated as a pup. (Now, when it's bedtime, she automatically chooses to sleep in her crate. Go figure!) She was and still is so high-strung, but she hasn't had a seizure in over three years! (We still occasionally give her some Potassium Bromide, just in case.)

I'm really wondering about a medical ailment as well, so Bear may not be able to help it. We had a cat that started peeing anywhere but in the litterbox. Apparently there is usually a medical problem when cats do that. As it turns out, our cat had a thyroid problem and was diabetic.

What is the consistency of Bear's poop? Is it firm or runny or what? Have you tried putting a diaper on him? When we leave our house for more than a few hours, Tecumseh has to wear a male wrap so that he won't mark the furniture. He's never been successful at tearing off the washable wrap.

I'm so sorry you're going through all this, but you're a wonderful mom in that you're doing all you can to help Bear.

[NordicWhispers]

I had a little girl returned to me with similar issues.  She was very easy to place with very little effort.   She is in a home with a retired woman who just lost her older eskie.  She does not use the crate and is home and the little girl seems to be fitting in just fine.  I will say that when we received her back, we immediately changed the crates and we weren't having any issues with her at all.  She even made it through a plane trip completely dry and clean.  As flying can be stressfull for some dogs, I was expecting the worse and fully intended on bathing her when we arrived at the hotel.

Just a thought since so many other things haven't worked..... I feed my dogs at night and only once a day.  Especially as pups, eating will stimulate a bowel movement usually within an hour if they are going to have one.  Then the food has to digest.  All of my gang without fail, even young pups will have a bowel movement first thing in the am.  Very rarely unless we are having tummy issues do we have bowel movements during the night.  We usually feed between 4:30 and 6:00.  Last potty outing at 11pm and up at 5am (or earlier with the babies). 

All of my guys get about 1 & 1/2 Cups daily as long as they aren't chunky.  My dogs range in weight from about 28lbs to 40lbs.

Before placing Bear, I would urge you to read your contract very carefully and make sure to talk with your breeder with your intentions as many breeders have a policy that the dog must be returened to them for placement.  not all of course but many.  Just thought I would throw that out there just in case.

Also do you have him involved in some training classes?  Sometimes spending time with you out of the house in a stressfull environment amongst other dogs can do wonders for problem solving and building confidence in dogs.

Hope things look up soon.

[maureenc]

Before placing Bear, I would urge you to read your contract very carefully and make sure to talk with your breeder with your intentions as many breeders have a policy that the dog must be returened to them for placement. 

I talked with her about this and she said she didn't want to try placing him. She has several really serious family health issues going on right now. Talking with her kind of put things back into perspective... we can get so overwhelmed with dog problems and now my problems seem pretty light...

"Something that is preventing him from realizing that he has to go, or realizing that he is going. "

This is exactly what I have asked over & over to the vet - is there some medical ailment that would cause him to have bad sphincter control? She insists he is fine - except for the recurring bladder infections. (and that is enough of a nightmare)

He is fine most of the time in the house - he does tell me when he needs to go out during the day.

I have seen him pee while he's sleeping a couple of times - laying right next to me and he just goes all over himself. So I wonder if he's doing the same thing with the pooping (have not witnessed this)

I do know he has crystals in his urine - have no idea what that means but know it's not good... that is why she wants to do the ultrasound.

On a positive note - I tried putting him in my bathroom to sleep, and he has done fine for 3 nights now! It is kind of close to the master bedroom - maybe he can hear hubby snoring and it's enough connection, I don't know. He always did fine in the master bedroom (can't do that anymore because of hubby's allergies)

I am hoping and praying that this is the answer. I know 3 nights is not a lot, but it gives me hope! Thank you all for your encouragement.

Hubby is a therapist and laughs - it's great I have a "doggy support group"!!

[Yukon]

Poor guy, I'm sorry that he is having so many bladder issues.  If I were you, in addition to pursuing the ultrasound, I might also consider going to another vet or asking about a specialist to get a second opinion (my vet will also do phone consultations with specialists or colleagues if she is stumped on something).  Sometimes a vet with a fresh perspective will think of something/ask a question/try a test your vet hasn't thought of yet.